Will USB-C Charging Standard Bring Fewer Other Proprietary Parts and Less e-Waste?

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Will USB-C Charging Standard Bring Fewer Other Proprietary Parts and Less e-Waste? - Slashdot

I'm not overly enthusiastic about USB-C cables either. Maybe I bought the wrong ones but they seem to fail a lot. Worse, the connector on my laptop motherboard failed which was a real hassle. Sad, because the concept of power+video+other-USB-stuff over one cable is pretty cool.

I've used the same aliexpress cable for like half a decade by this point. Haven't had any other failed yet either. You might be just unlucky.

It's not all perfect with weird compatibilities and feature support but most of the time it does do what I expected so I'm all in on the Type-C train.

Some are definitely better than others in my experience but I think you bring up a key point, on a phone ot very light laptop its ok but on heavier laptops it seems to be a bit underbuilt for purpose. My thinkpad charge port, while still working, definitely is loose than normal and is a bit pickier about cables, it will eventually fail (to be fair i do beat it up and have tripped over the cable a lot)

Still, For phones and other things, just errific IME. For laptops, it's a bit meh so far.

Consumer devices should allow gorillas to operate them without rapid failure rate.

Something like lightning is gorilla friendly. USB-C is ridiculous. It is designed to fail.

Consumers are gorillas. Consumers also sometimes slip, are mistakes, get distracted and so on. Stop making shitty port standards and forcing them down consumer's throats. There is zero benefit to freezing technology on usb-c. None. Zip. Nada. If left alone we'd have another better version in a few years and could leave this planned obsolescent piece of shit standard in the past where it belongs.

We'd have a lot less e-waste if our devices such as my otherwise perfectly functional iPad didn't have to be replaced because the piece of shit usb-c port died. How much e-waste went into that? And how much did replacing my otherwise perfectly functional iPad cost me? $700. So we now have 1.2 lbs of e-waste of my old ipad for now reason and I'm out $700.

That was a much bigger profit to Apple than cables which I don't buy from Apple. Who the hell buys cables from Apple?

Lightning was a fantastically super

Drop an iPad on the lightning connector enough times, and it'll break too. I've had to replace the lighting cables for the carelessly-handled iPads around the house far too many times that its beyond ridiculous. At least a USB-C connector has a bit more heft to it.

What? In what universe is the visibly more fragile usb-c connector more hefty than the solid chunk of material in lightning?

After being forced to buy a new usb-c based iPad because of worn out shitty usb-c port and then buying third party magnetic connector for the replacement I am not convinced usb-c is more solid than a wet piece of tissue. I've had lightning since it came out and still do. Never had a single lightning device port wear out, break, nothing. My new iPad usb-c was already loose after a w

I have had okay success with USB-C cables for data but getting USB-C charging to actually work is a crap shoot. I have multiple USB-C docking stations where the data is just fine (drives the monitor and the USB connected devices work) but which won't power the connected laptop and I end up having to use the proprietary charger in addition to the USB-C dock. And no it's not that I'm getting only 60W and need more. There's just no power being delivered.

Sounds like your laptop is a Dell. The one my company's IT department gave me wouldn't charge with any non-Dell dock or any non-Dell charger. My Macbook Pro doesn't care whose dock or charger I use with it; neither does my Lenovo laptop.

I have killed one port on a multi-charger due to a bad USB-C cable.

I also expect manufacturers of computers and phones to come up with firmware constraints where batteries would only charge at full speed with brand specific chargers if they charge at all.

The Anker ones with the braided fabric cladding have always held up great for me for both USB-C and lightning. I just don't buy the no-name Amazon basics cables anymore. And I have 2 relatively young kinds that aren't exactly gentle with them. The Apple branded lighting cables though - woof. The soft rubber cladding has like a 6 month half life before it fails around the the connector. They will still work for a while after that but just look like hell.

None of it is USB-C's fault except the pitch, which IME is not the problem. AFAICT it's the big goofy plug and heavy ass jacket they seem to like to use all the time. There's no need for either when you're only connecting 4 wires anyway, as to a phone. The fact that the port is on a board with stuff that makes it expensive is double especially not USB-C's fault, that's something your phone vendor did on purpose to induce additional sales.

I thought USB-C on my phone had failed. Turned out there was so much pocket lint in the port that I couldn't get the plug in reliably. Worked perfectly after cleaning it.

I've had the same experience, and I'm betting that many others have as well. It doesn't take much to interfere with proper connector mating.

Of course after repeatedly pushing and wiggling over the course of weeks or months it was nicely compacted. I had to very carefully dig it out with a sewing pin, the air duster couldn't make a dent on it.

"And if their charging cables need to be replaced once or twice a year as many users attest,"

Yes, those who always forget them in the hotel nightstand.

But if you go down to the desk at the hotel you're staying at and say "I seem to have left my charging cable lying around somewhere - could you check if one has been turned into lost and found", they will probably ask you for a description and go look in the bin (and won't find yours) but sometimes will come back with one that has been sitting in the bin for more than the "timeout period" and say something like "I couldn't find yours, but will this one help you out?" (okay, this probably doesn't work at Mot

Or they'll sell you a new one for $5, but it contains a spy chip.

Never mind, of course, that almost everyone I know who uses iPhones buys a bunch of off-brand cables for about $3 to $5 each, and the biggest issue is losing them instead of having them break.

Of course, about 90% of my iPhone charging is done magnetically, and the majority of my data transfer is wireless, too.

Apple may be griping about it right now, but the amount of money they make off of cables is certainly a drop in the bucket...

Terribly written article but anyway... I'm dubious as to the environmental benefit. Existing Lightning devices will continue to need cables and new USB-C ones will... also continue to need cables. I don't think the device:cable ratio is going to change much so all we'll be doing is buying different cables. Is that better?

In my case our main charging station has one each of USB-C, Lightning and microUSB. Once our last Lightning device leaves the Lightning will be replaced with another USB-C since we still ne

In the medium term it means you won't have to get new cables with new devices and they will stop being included in the box.

Except in Brazil where they will need to be in the box. And for the millions of older phone users who will need to pay an extra $25 to buy one when we replace our phones.

No. Because USB is a mess of "optional features" And the addition of Thunderbolt options just makes it a ginormous fuster-cluck. And with no certification, you run into the problem where you get a "USB-compliant" cable or device that may or may NOT work, depending on which features they opted to support!

Not to mention that USB has the most arcane, idiotic, just plain USELESS naming convention.

USB 1.0 USB 1.1 (these two are essentially identical) USB2.,0 USB 3.0 USB 3.1 Gen1 (essentially USB 3.0) USB 3.2 Gen1 (essentially USB 3.0) USB 3.1 (a DIFFERENT USB 3.1) USB 3.1 Gen2 (essentially the same as the second USB 3.1) USB 3.2 Gen2 (Essentially the same as the second USB 3.1) USB 3.2 Gen (no "gen") USB 3.2 2x2 (essentially the same as the gen-less USB 3.2) USB 4 (USB4 Gen 2x2/USB 20Gbps) USB4 (USB4 Gen 3x2/USB 40Gbps)

And since USB4 is supposed to be supporting Thunderbolt in various incarnations, expect an even BIGGER fuster-cluck to come!

The only reason anyone supports this abortion is because they essentially HAVE TO. And all of them are cutting corners on it at every turn.

The USB-C connector seems to be a final... it's the same pins as the Apple Lightning.

Connectors are are really what this is about, use USB-C like everybody else, instead of the hard-to-find connectors for Lightning.

One point: Mophie used to make wrap around cases with batteries for iPhone, but can't at the moment because only Apple has Lightning female ports.. only found on the iPhone... there's no Lightning extender cable out there, they tell you to use one from the USB-A side of the standard cable. Theref

Even the USB-C cable itself doesn't have a 'standard' pinout.

Per Wikipedia: USB 2.0/1.1 USB Power Delivery USB 3.0/3.1/3.2 Alternate Mode Debug Accessory Mode Audio Adapter Accessory Mode

And then every Android vendor has a proprietary charging protocol on top of that.

Even the USB-C cable itself doesn't have a 'standard' pinout.

Yes, it absolutely does. There's standards for all of that stuff "except" alternate mode, which Apple could but probably won't use for back compat with a USB-C to lightning adapter. And even alternate mode is a standard, in that which pins are available for it are specified.

And then every Android vendor has a proprietary charging protocol on top of that.

Nope. Some of them just use USB-PD, like they all should.

From a hardware point, there's 8 pins on each, and the connection works up-side-down too.

The dense packing of the connector worries me too. Especially when it comes to high voltage charging. A little sweat in your connector on the phone when the negotiation decides to raise the voltage and the phone is toast.

My pixel detects moisture in the USB port and disables charging. Not ideal, but at least it protects the phone.

Switching to USB-C would mean most add-ons like keyboards would be universal between smart phones, and that's where the International regulators step in.

Ha. Fat chance. The "Made for iPhone" program isn't going away anytime soon.

Hell, if I had to predict, I'd say everything will be "Made for iPhone" and pay the Apple licensing fee even if they didn't before. So your keyboard that used to be for Android phones because it had USB-C, will cost $10 more because it has to work with iPhones now too as they pay fo

No. Because USB is a mess of "optional features"

Completely irrelevant. This is talking about USB-C charging. The only thing here is the reference to the EU law that a device must have a USB-C socket and implement USB-PD. What actual USB is underneath is completely irrelevant. Additionally there is a question debating e-waste. I've yet to see any successive device implement USB as a step backwards and since all USB standards are effectively backwards compatible the answer in the headline is (Betteridge forgive me) yes! New devices will not cause peripherals or cables to be landfilled.

The only reason anyone supports this abortion is because they essentially HAVE TO.

LOL. People support this "abortion" because they actually remember the proprietary clusterfuck that came before, and people support this because despite your complaints about the different variants the standard still is very much "universal".

I just plugged my Dell USB-C Thunderbolt / DisplayPort (honestly I don't even know what goes over the cable) into my phone and the phone charged just fine. I've plugged it into an older laptop and all supported features worked and unsupported ones didn't. i.e. I had network, USB hub, and audio, but not DP. So two incompatible devices still gave a best case output rather than breaking down completely. I have plugged an ultra modern USB-3.2 2x2 HDD into a laptop from 2008 and it worked just fine albeit a bit slowly, and my hacked together thesis project from the late 90s with a poorly written USB driver implementing USB 1.1 still works just fine via USB-C on my 2021 vintage motherboard (obviously an adapter is required).

On the other hand my previous laptop dock had a proprietary connector and ended up in the bin when I got a new laptop, even though it was from the same series and manufacturer (Dell Latitude) because yet another proprietary piece of shit was obsoleted.

And all of them are cutting corners on it at every turn.

And yet. It still works.

For once Microsoft did something useful and required all USB 4 ports on Windows machines to support the Thunderbolt stuff. So at least where you see USB 4 on a Windows capable system, you know it supports Thunderbolt devices.

I hate USB-C charging. Let me count the ways...

1) The male connector isn't sturdy enough. Every year, I throw away about 20 USB-C charging cables at my school due to damaged ends. They are not made for children, who easily snap them, either by inserting or removing them in a manner they can't handle. Before USB-C, we used chargers w/ Dell's 7.4mm barrel charger. Zero broken ends in five years.

2) The female port isn't sturdy enough. Every year, I throw between 5-8 Chromebook motherboards with destroyed

USB-C may be OK for a small device, like a phone, but IMO it is not OK for larger devices, like laptops. The barrel connector on laptops is better than USB-C, but of course, manufacturer have to have their "improved" "special" power supplies instead of ones that just provide 19V DC or whatever. Even if the cable breaks, it is not difficult to replace the connector or resolder the input jack on the motherboard.

USB-C connector is tiny and has lots of pins, replacing it is not easy.

USB-C in general reminds me

The issue with barrel jacks is that there is no way to safely determine how much current is available. So many manufacturers added an extra pin to communicate that data.

Otherwise the laptop has to either set a very low limit like say 20W, or try to determine when the current limit has been reached by looking for when the voltage starts to sag rapidly. The problem with the latter is that it can end up running the charger out of spec, at a current it can support for short bursts but not indefinitely.

There is a current requirement written on the laptop, if you plug in a power supply that is rated for lower current, expect it to not work for very long (or at all). In theory, the laptop could temporarily pull the rated current and check if the voltage is within spec - if it is not - display a message saying that the power supply is too weak. It is not needed though - if someone uses an under powered power supply and the power supply melts (or just turns off because overload protection kicks in) it's the pr

The EU directive also addresses quite a large part of that problem, by not just requiring charging over USB-C, but requiring support of USB-PD for all devices capable of charging at more than 5 volts or 3 ampere.

If that has to be actually tested and certified, good. If not or some devices that use USB-C do not have to support it (because it is not listed in the law) there will be a problem of incompatible power supplies, cables and devices.

The problem with older USB was one - if the power supply is not powerful enough the device doesn't work. Now the complexity of USB-C has introduced more possible problems.

I was very glad to see that Apple has returned to the magsafe power connector on their M2 laptops, although you can still use USB-C ports to charge with. That's a great move. And they've gone back to the straight-out style of magsafe cord which actually does pop loose whereas that silly inline design would sometimes not pull out when the cord was yanked, pulling the laptop off a table.

Notebook charging ports should be easily replaceable and rugged in the manner of Thinkpad connectors.

Soldering the charging port of any phone, notebook, tablet or similar device is fecal design which is why I don't buy notebooks so afflicted.

My phones charge wirelessly saving the USB port for tethering or use with a hub I attached to the vertical shelf-style Anker wireless charging stand which lets it function as a desktop replacement during power and cable network outages.

USB-C is creating tons of e-waste. Next story.

And now, in their infinite wisdom, the EU has demanded that there must be one connector to rule them all.

It is good to see they have the unassailable knowledge that USB-C is the final iteration of USB, that there are no more advances to be made. This is the pinnacle of connectors, never to be improved. We've reached the top my friends - utter perfection by decree.

I'll have to buy yet another set of dongles. More crap to buy.

Hm yeah looking for the barrel port on my MBP.

So you think since they are already mandated to do usb power they will -also- do other power and increase per unit prices above their competition who doesn't do that?

Your ideas are interesting and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

My company's IT dept gave me a Dell Latitude that had both USB-C and barrel charging. I didn't like the computer and asked for something else; they gave me a Precision; it ha USB C only. It's better than the Latitude, but I still don't care for it much. Mostly I use a Macbook Pro (also USB C only), which IT doesn't like because they're not very good at Mac support.

Do you have any ways yet?

1) Lightning cables end up in the bin broken all the time. Kids are frigging ruthless. 2) USB-C is plenty sturdy on the socket. Maybe consider not buying the cheapest shit you can find or giving it to the worst people on the planet (kids). Most people aren't throwing away Chromebooks, at least no more often than they are throwing away anything else with a broken connector. My wife mentioned last month a kid fully bent their iPad in class. Is that Lightning cable's fault? 3) Who gives

No one gives a shit about the cables. It's about the device port side going bad because it's designed to fail.

If someone asked me to design a data/power port to fulfill their planned obsolescence business model I would have designed USB-C on the device end.

The idea that oh we can't give them to kids because kids are rough on stuff is lame. Consumer devices should be ok in the hands of a gorilla. It's a fact kids are getting millions of these things. It is on the manufacturers, designers, and in this cas

If you weren't working in a school with kids pulling out the tip because they're bored I would recommend magnetic cables such as WSKEN.

I just leave the plug permanently attach to the USB-C port. Sure, it juts out a couple of mm from the phone but I never worry about yanking a cable causing pins to bend.

Why not design a Chromebook just with the magnetic ends, I wonder...

"1) The male connector isn't sturdy enough. " "2) The female port isn't sturdy enough." These are related, and changing 1) will make 2) worse. It is intentional mechanical design to make the plug weaker than the socket because replacing the cable is easier than replacing the device.

"3) It's a complicated protocol, requiring power management chips to work." Only the fancy high-power modes require specific power management chips, and any other method of power delivery at those levels also requires power managem

Looks like the USB C cable market is doing the Monster cable thing. Here in Canada in the box stores that sell USB C the prices have more than doubled overnight. Call it the Apple worm lemming effect which is somewhat similar to the Covid toilet paper effect. Regardless if you want a decent usb cable now it gets expensive if you need a few of them and you don't want the crap ones from 7/11 or the local gas station. Almost as bad as the HP ink jet printer cartridge protection scam, but not quite. We live in

Mmm hmmm... yeah let's go back 50 years to 2 prong, no ground, no gfi wall plugs. If it was good enough for granpa it's good enough for me and for my grand kids too!

It's all your silly comment deserved.

I reserve the well researched and url qualified replies for people who had something smart but wrong to say.

Usb-c was stupid on the drawing board. The only thing dumber is to solidify it as a government forced standard freezing the advancement of technology for "50 years".

Yeah because when all my competitors use USB-C, I will use that -and- add to my costs by adding some other plug, too. Right.

More realistically what will happen is that it will be decided that the USB-C standard is no longer enough. There will be committee meetings and such, and a new standard decided upon.

Once a new standard is decided upon, whatever that standard may be, a timeline will be set for all affected companies/devices to migrate to the new standard.

That said, we may be reaching the point where we don't need new standards all the time, because the equipment isn't evolving quite so fast(in that area).

Why would anyone bother working on a new anything when usb-c is mandated?

I wouldn't waste company resources on a still born project.

BTW, my Dell charger is rated 90W.

What gave you the idea that right wingers want to stop consumer device development?

Hint: this entire concept of stopping development was created by the EU. Do you consider the EU to be a politically conservative organization?? The virtue signaling is ridiculous. Just stop.

So I wonder if the article means "all Great Walls of China together, each at the time it was completed", or just the Ming one.

I use my laptop charger for almost all devices at home.

New Xbox, PlayStation controllers? Sure. Bluetooth Headset? Finally! Phones? Yes, of course. Portable power bank? Why not! It also doubles as a jump starter for my car, too! Laptops? Ahem!

Yes, there are still occasional outliers. And yes, low powered, or random type-C chargers still have compatibility issues. But any 60W+ reputable laptop charger will now be compatible with 90% of the devices.

This is a great thing.

"you could just about buy a Twitter a year for that sum" ...or wait 6 months and you can buy 50 twitters a year for that sum.

USB2 generally assumed 5V/1A, but some devices need more to both operate and charge at the same time. Nintendo and Raspberry intentionally or accidentally breaking the rules for usb-c isn't really a fault of the standard. I think it's great that there's a real standard for signalling power requirements, but it's unfortunate that there's no longer a universal expectation of what a charger or device needs for power level.

See Betteridge's Law of Headlines [wikipedia.org]. Any headline which ends in a question mark can probably be answered with "no".

I'd say in this case, it's a maybe. Sure, there will be fewer one-off cables lying around. It sure would be nice to have one USB-C cable in my car regardless of whether my wife or I am driving. I'd love to have a smaller ziplock of wall warts and charging cables.

I doubt this will make a measurable different in the amount of e-waste we generate. And for that matter, the cable and transformer proba

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Will USB-C Charging Standard Bring Fewer Other Proprietary Parts and Less e-Waste? - Slashdot